Hoa Virtual Meeting


  1. @Hywan: Numbers and news,
  2. @Grummfy: Hoa Apex 4th edition,
  3. @iraphael Bank account,
  4. @Hywan: Discourse,
  5. @Pierozi: Infrastructure,
  6. @ashgenesis: PHP 7.1,
  7. @ashgenesis: New flyers for Hoa, designed by BrandBrothers,
  8. @Hywan: New fashion is to blame dependencies.


Numbers and news

We record 2,650,816 installations on Packagist. We record 1732 stargazers and 606 forks on Github.

Discourse is a new sponsor! Hurray!

New baby in the hoackers, that’s so great!

Hoa Apex 4th edition

2 possibilities. Either we join a big event (also organized by the guys who are organizing the next Hoa Apex, namely @Grummfy and @maitrepylos) or we keep it as usual. In the former case, the event could be delayed. In the latter case, we could schedule the event for November.

Maybe this is too early. We need time to find sponsors for the food, to find good transport fees etc.

Location: Bruxelles or Namur (Belgium). Confirmed!

Bank account

This is a difficult topic. The fundation is French, with French laws, but the president is a french leaving in Switzerland, and the treasurer is a swiss leaving in Switzerland.

Classical banks do not want us. We need another bank. We are trying N26.com (ex number26). Internally, they are changing a lot, which postpone their opening in Switzerland. We are patient and we are waiting. We are waiting since almost 1.5 years so we can still wait few months.


Our mail server (including mailing list) has been removed due to innatention few months ago. This is hard to restore. Our comment system (http://posativ.org/isso/) is cool but we do not have an administration panel. We tried to develop one https://github.com/hoaproject/W3/issues/57. Some people complained about mailing list.

We talk to Discourse and they have accepted to host an instance of Discourse for us! Hurray! Accessible at discourse.hoa-project.net. Under configuration. They are 4 administrators so far with 4 moderators. We are currently working on the setup.

We will replace our comment system by Discourse too.

We will publish a blog post when it will fully configured and usable.

We are so happy to finally have a new platform to exchange.

Maybe we will host our own instance in the future. Currently we don’t because our machines are not powerful enough (https://www.scaleway.com/).


We have a big project, called Infrastructure (https://github.com/hoaproject/Infrastructure). The goal is to fully automate our infrastructure, from VM to services.

After months of work, we face two issues:

  1. This is a huge project,
  2. The goal was to setup the CI and the mails, and it’s still not here.

Having something under development in not a solution. We need a CI. We need mails. The other services are working (Git, HTTP, SSH, databases etc.).

Long discussion about our goals and short-term needs.

Solutions: We should use our AWS instances with AWS tools. Then automate things slowly. Step by step, instead of addressing the whole thing in a single step. For the CI, we will maintain all the scripts for Travis. For the mails, we have Discourse to replace mailing lists and Gandi to replace mails, so it’s fine.

Infrastructure is not dead. It will evolve to something a little bit different. Current landing code is working great.

PHP 7.1

PHP 7.1 is in beta. There is some BC breaks we have to catch. 2 majors yet:

  1. PHP identifiers are changing, https://github.com/hoaproject/Consistency/issues/12,
  2. void is a new keyword, https://github.com/hoaproject/Consistency/issues/10.

We are using atoum for the unit test framework behind Hoa\Test. This issue https://github.com/atoum/atoum/pull/615 is blocking. We have to fix it too.


BrandBrothers (http://brandbrothers.fr/) is the company behind our new logo. They are offering us to design flyers, in case of events or files. This is an excellent offer, thanks! Go!

New fashion is to blame dependencies

Hoa’s libraries have smart dependencies. Small ones, addressing the SOLID principle, with a high quality and safety. However, the new fashion is to blame project with several dependencies and to promote project with zero or few dependencies.

What people see with Hoa is 4-5 dependencies per libraries. This is true. 1 dependency = few files. What some people would prefer is 1 dependency per library, so 1 dependency = many files. This is just a perception; We are not going to change that.

However, we must communicate about our design and why this is smart to have small and reusable dependencies (it reduces the bug surface, reuse the code so upgrade performances etc.).

If this is justify and clarify, no worry.

Goals for the coming month






This new event will be placed in few days so feel free to vote.


They start around 8 PM Europe/Paris time.

End of survey -> 02/05

for information, the 5 june is holiday in Belgium so I’m available during the day too.

The meeting is planed to 8th June. See you there.

Hoa VM may (2017-06-08) Présence :

  • Pierozi
  • Grummfy
  • Ashgenesis

Un status sur https://github.com/hoaproject/Socket/pull/50

  • BC break OK
  • exemple de non BC-break pour les gens ne voulant pas se mettre à jour
  • Pierozi fournira un lien d’aide

Retour sur les points de central https://github.com/hoaproject/central/issues

  • Kitab : https://github.com/Hywan/Kitab/
  • jolie travail
  • bug potentiel : RecursiveDirectoryIterator::__construct(path/to/file): (trop de fichier)
  • doc du projet restant
  • sinon cela à l’air fini
  • Hoa\Heap
  • readme a mettre à jour (pierozi s’en occupe pour le prochain meeting)
  • Alexis va faire avancer
  • Hoa\Ustring
  • travis plante
  • paquet manquant
  • cf avec julien bianchi
  • voir pour rebuild les locales du conteneur
  • apt-get update && apt-get install -y locales \ && echo "Europe/Paris" > /etc/timezone \ && dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive tzdata \ && echo -e 'LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8' > /etc/default/locale \ && dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive locales \ && tail -n +6 /etc/locale.gen | sed -e 's/#/ /' >> /tmp/locale.gen \ && mv /tmp/locale.gen /etc/locale.gen \ && locale-gen
  • On met les gens dans pikacode (Alexis)
  • mais cela bug :wink:
  • cfp d’Alexis sur le forumphp, sur hoa
  • faire une présentation général
  • cfp de Grummfy write the doc, pour kitab
  • => faire la proposition au forumphp (Grummfy)
  • parler de websocket … mais on a rien noté
  • idée de faire un projet démo distribuer … mais ppffff



Soucis de présence au virtual

  • comment faire mieux?
  • forcer les gens a etre connecter pour répondre au doodle et etre notifier
  • next date : a choisir, Alexis lance l’appel

Idéee pour les prochains VM

  • mettre les différents meeting logs, dans un seul.
  • a reassembler ou non en un seul les existants (Alexis regarde)

Je pense que de choisir la date du prochain meeting à la fin du meeting est une très bonne chose.

This new event will be placed in few days so feel free to vote.

They start around 8 PM Europe/Paris time.

  • 06/03
  • 07/03
  • 08/03
  • 09/03
  • 10/03

0 voters

End of survey -> 03/03


  • Ivan Enderlin (hywan)
  • Alexis von Glasow (ashgenesis)
  • Pierre Tomasima (pierozi)
  • Matthieu Codron (circlecode)


Numbers (5 millions) Roadmap RFC Hoa Apex PHP 7.1 Container-Interop Hoa\Http


5,189,797 downloads 1952 stargazers 675 forks


What do you think of the new roadmap


RFC 58, everyone is OK, but we must be compatible with PHPDoc

RFC 52, everyone is OK, but we should be able to add a link from one example to another one, or to support links between code. A standalone tool would be better

RFC 62, the library is already implemented (https://github.com/Pierozi/HoaHeap), we must move this RFC as ready as soon as possible

RFC 51 & 53 & 61, please we need feedbacks!

Hoa Apex

No update from Belgium

No update from Reims

We need to find another place

A report has been proposed to September, 2017

PHP 7.1

See discussion Drop PHP 5.5 in favor PHP 7.1

We drop PHP 5.x in favor or PHP 7.1, we skip PHP 7.0. Everyone agrees


We had several contributions to integrate Hoa into frameworks, like Symfony, but no one to maintain them

PSR-11 can be a very nice opportunity (https://github.com/container-interop/fig-standards/blob/master/proposed/container.md)

Contact Matthieu Napoli

We can find some synergy between PSR-11 and Hoa: We commit to maintain all bridges with PSR-11, and we can offer an “experimention”


We need to do something with this library. Pierre or I will start a pre-RFC on users.hoa-project.net

New poll for the next virtual meeting http://doodle.com/poll/qms2rygg55273zq9

Please sign in on doodle to get notified

Join us at 8 PM for the virtual meeting.


  • Ivan Enderlin
  • Ashgenesis
  • Grummfy
  • Stéphane Hulard
  • Raphaël Emourgeon

Roadmap: 21% done

RFC 62, would like a feedback from @Pierozi

RFC 61, 2 parts: (i) Update the contributor guide, (ii) Update hoa devtools:snapshot to generate a beautiful CHANGELOG.md. Assigned to @shulard

RFC 59, Need to be done…. Assigned by @Hywan

RFC 58, Almost done by RFC 52 et RFC 53 (Kitab). Quick discussion about PHPDoc, can be removed because PHP 7 fully supported by PHPStorm. We can still allow @return if needed.

RFC 53, Kitab Kitab Kitab.

RFC 51, This is a huge effort. Each exception is a type. It’s better to document this type. Excellent idea. If an exception is used for different purposes, then this is a bad practise and we should fix that. So we should rely on Kitab only. But hoa explain can go further like providing a FAQ, a link to the dicourse instance. @shulard and @grummfy are going to write all arguments on the RFC to continue the discussion.

RFC 36, hoa/compiler and hoa/math test suites are too long to execute because xdebug slows everything down. Addressed by @hywan. We decide to disable code coverage for these libraries. For hoa/ustring, system libraries are missing. Addressed by @ashgenesis. Hoa Virtual Meeting For hoa/protocol, addressed by @hywan. Should we drop HHVM? We should, and we will (see RFC 69).

RFC 54, addressed by @shulard. Need a last review from @ashgenesis. New section in the Literature Section: Knowledge/list of notes. Need to migrate the blog post into this. Addressed by @hywan

RFC 55, Need more feedbacks.

RFC 56, It’s ready. Go go go!

RFC 57, not mentioned during this meeting yet.

About PHP 5.x drop, we will introduce a BC break. And we will introduce another BC break to introduce hoa/option.

About Hoa Apex : still OK for Lausanne. November 18th-19th. Addressed by @hywan

Hoa Foundation: We need member subscriptions. We have a tool online (dolibar). Need to calculate the amount of money we need for Hoa and Apex. Addressed by @raphael See Discourse for the following.


New poll for the next virtual meeting https://doodle.com/poll/emprwefkcy34bg28

Please sign in on doodle to get notified meeting started at 8 pm Europe/Paris time

We will talk about:

  • Apex
  • Kitab
  • Hoa/Compiler
  • Hoa/Socket
  • Hoa/WebSocket
  • Hoa/EventSource
  • Drop PHPDoc
  • Central RFC
  • Gitlab
  • Travis/Gitlab-ci
  • Bors

Join us at 8 PM for the virtual meeting.

It’s a lot of topics. The agenda might run over many meetings.

Yes, we will start at 8 pm.

Yep, it’s a big agenda, we can discuss to define which one are the most important/urgent to talk before the meeting. And now we talk only about new subject, not about previous objectif or feedback.



Cancelled because of pregnancy. Restart the edition. Reschedule from scratch.


DocTests are compiled and executed with hoa/test. Big win! DocTests are not rendered in HTML yet. Where to publish the HTML files?

  1. On gh-pages per library?
  2. On gh-pages on the Central?
  3. On the site (like we do now for the hack book)?

4 votes for number 3.

On the long term, remove the hack book and migrate it to Kitab, so that we know where the examples are broken. A hack book chapter is a README.md on the top namespace of the library.


We drop the project to migrate from Github to Gitlab.

@ashgenesis asked if we should move the origin remote from git.hoa-project.net to Gitlab? No because we don’t have the (wo)man power for that.

@Hywan Pikacode has been removed from Bhoat to simplify the workflow and deploy time, because Pikacode has a mirror mode for repository. Gitlab has a mirror mode now! We must remove Gitlab from Bhoat and configure all repositories to be mirrors.


Only 3 libraries don’t run on Travis: hoa/compiler, hoa/math, and hoa/ustring. On the two formers, we have timeouts because of XDebug. We have decided to disable code coverage and XDebug. @Hywan will fix it. For the later, there is a conflict with Travis, ICU and PHP, see the following link:

@Pierozi should be able to fix it.

PHP 7 (aka drop PHP 5)

It’s nothing or everything. That’s wrong. We must merge PR step by step and release a beta tag (like x.y.z-beta) (see https://github.com/hoaproject/Central/issues/75).


Under implementation. @hywan will send a PR soon. Very nice API and performance!

Tasks to do

  • @Pierozi Can you check if the server backups are still running?
  • @thehawk970 Do we keep the French version of the site? We want to drop the French version and keep the English version only.
  • @Hywan Check that @ashgenesis has the permission to update all Gitlab repositories to be mirrors.
  • @ashgenesis Update all Gitlab repositories to be mirrors of git.hoa-project.net.
  • @Hywan Set up Travis for hoa/compiler and hoa/math by disabling XDebug.
  • @Pierozi Set up Travis for hoa/ustring.
  • @Hywan Continue PHP 7 migration, and add beta tags.
  • @Pierozi Will take a look at why tests are failing on Travis for hoa/socket.

New poll for the next virtual meeting https://doodle.com/poll/83mn5wgvezgc36hs

Please sign in on doodle to get notified meeting started at 8 pm Europe/Paris time

We will talk about:

Join us at 8 PM for the virtual meeting.



Year 2018

Discuss about the possibility to create a slack for hoa as a lot of contributors already use it. It could be more easy to be kept up to date about all events. What about our gitter (looks private)? Need to identify the problem and fix it.

Discuss about continue to integrate Hoa to symphony with bundle and how we can be more usable with other frameworks (see PSR-11, PSR-7)

Discuss about adding more tutorial to integrate Hoa in other framework or tools.

Discuss about old Pull Request still open and not reviewed need more code review.

We need to communicate more about the evolution of what we do on library. Not necessary a bit article. Shulard can help to write some little article and we can publish it on reddit.

Virtual Meeting Alert

All agreed to found a better solution or create one to help to organize Virtual Meeting and automatically send message when a date is defined.

Hosting hoa-project.net

Backup is operational. Which tools we need for principal repository? On which server we can host it? Do we need to use another tools than gitolite to host our git repositories? (Need Hywan feedback)

OpenCollective https://opencollective.com

OpenCollective can be used to have a donation. “These open source projects have created open collectives to share their expenses and let their community chip in.” We can create an account to help the association received donation. Hywan, we need your confirmation, we all are agreed to create an account.

extension for atoum related to hoa/option

Good extension need to be reviewed and migrate in Hoa organisation.

devtools template

simplifie the way to create a new library, we can add Kitab example inside and tests also to help.


  • @Hywan : feedback about opencollective, slack, code review and git hosting
  • @ashgenesis: found a tool to reduce time to organise virtual meeting
  • @shulard: create few articles to communicate about Hoa roadmap and steps done.

Thanks. Sad to not be there. For slack I prefer to say no. For me it’s a bad tools for open-source project because it’s not open in term of seeing what’s inside. You should consider using a Mattermost instance (framasoft has one) if you want a more modern tools, but not sure of the need. My 2 cents